Olisa Agbakoba, a lawyer and politician, recently addressed journalists on the state of the nation in relation to the performance of the Muhammadu Buhari administration in the last few months. He believed that there had been some intangible successes reflected in some measures of attitudinal change of many citizens. ZEBULON AGOMUO was there. Excerpts:
You are amongst the few that believe that 100 days is too early to judge the President’s performance in office?
No, 100 days is not too early. Hundred days is a good length of time to judge a president. But on what parameters? My parameter of judging President Buhari’s 100 days is different from the parameter that I see in the media. They want to know where the ministers are and what is new. They are judging him on physical parameter while I am gauging his effectiveness on intangible parameters. What I see different is Buhari’s understanding of the Nigerian mindset and tackling it first before addressing other issues. It is the succeeding period that will be judged. Firstly, the people need to be patient for the appointment of his ministers. If the ministers fit the mindset that he has developed, it will be wonderful, but if the ministers are the same typical ministers that we see, that will be below the laid down expectations and mindset of the people.
I also expect the dismantling of the corporatist government. Nigeria is a corporatist country, meaning that we are interested in corporate wellbeing. The Nigerian society cares for the elites and is not interested in the common man. This was also one of President Barak Obama’s challenges. President Obama shows interest in the welfare of the common man while the republicans are interested in the corporate wellbeing. Buhari campaigned on the agenda that he shall include the common man.
He said that he would identify vulnerable Nigerians. He has set the target at 25million people and will dedicate finances towards their needs. We have to see that happen. Social issues also have to be addressed, issues such as health, education and what policies the President is going to run on. The problem is that Nigeria is a very sick country and the President’s prescriptions to cure this sickness and ensure its future must be addressed. It is sick because no Nigerian leader has understood how to manage Nigeria’s diverse peoples.
Can Nigeria be governed from Abuja? Is this government going to look at how to decentralise power? We are about six kinds of people in about 300 ethnic groups. Are we going to have these groups empowered in a way that the difference that various groups feel will lead to chaos and civil unrest? The issue of religion is a good example. The only reason sharia is causing problem is because if a state declares that they want sharia, it causes tension across Nigeria because religion is in the constitution and it is almost like a national issue. But if religion is made to be an issue for the state, it becomes the problem of the state because it will not affect other regions. So, when you decentralise and make issues peculiar to those who require it, then it is not a national problem. A lot of our problems that are national are not national.
So, you are in support of a decentralised federalism?
Yes, I support decentralised federalism and not central federalism where everything is looking at the top. I want us to deconstruct our top federalism and send power down to the bottom. Like in education, it should not be a federal issue; it should be something for the states. It should be state matter. Roads and hospitals are other examples. There are many things that should actually not be the federal’s purview but the state’s. The federal should transfer these responsibilities to the state, so that the federal can concentrate on fewer things that affect all of us.
What is your take on the recent appointments by the President which some critics said were lopsided?
It is too early to speak on that. The government is at its early stages. I know that it may look as if it is one-sided but I will like to see all the ministers appointed first before I can comment.
Some people say the South East is being marginalised by the appointments?
I don’t believe in that. This is why I say that that has been the old talk. Marginalisation has been an issue that politicians use to promote themselves. So, I won’t buy that. I will buy it at the end of the president’s appointment. When he has finished making all the appointments and this pattern shows, then I can say there is a problem. The other day, The President’s media aide, Garba Shehu, allayed such fears, urging people to wait until all appointments are concluded.
I believe him. It is far too early to draw conclusions. All I see the president doing now is changing the mindset. All the politicians that are from my town, how have I benefited? Honestly, that is the least of my problems. I don’t care where you come from. We are 170million Nigerians; I will tell you that 169.5million Nigerians will not give a hoot where anybody comes from. The few politicians who are looking for opportunities are responsible for winding us up to think like them or to start seeing things which are not there. If we are truly looking forward to a new Nigeria, we have to be patient. If the President, with his eyes open, throws away a massive opportunity to be a great Nigerian leader, I will be surprised and disappointed. So, I am not going to judge him on the 100 days that he has made sectional appointment. Let’s allow him to run his course.
How would you describe the fight against the Boko Haram insurgency in the light of the President’s earlier promise to end the menace of the Islamist sect in three months?
Buhari is taking the right steps, but if I were him, I would not have used three months. Fighting terrorism is not easy. If I were in his shoes, all I would have said would be that I can see a more aggressive strategy to combat Boko Haram but there is no way Boko Haram will be eradicated in three months. Even the Americans have not been able to achieve that in the case of ISIS or Al Qaeda.
What do you think is the danger in giving a time frame as the President did?
Even though I think he did it to show the Boko Haram people that we are really going to get you, it is a gamble that he has taken and hopefully, he can achieve it. But if I were to advise him, I would not have put a time frame. I would have said that in three months, Boko Haram would be sufficiently degraded not to do much harm. I would not have said they would disappear in three months.
You were an active member of the Jonathan’s National Conference; do you think the current government should implement some of the recommendations?
I was at the national conference and President Buhari promised to take the issue of corruption very seriously. As you can see, he started by changing the mindset and it has worked; the next thing he needs to do is to build institutions to make sure that the mindset does not get derailed. He needs to make sure that the institutions that fight the war against corruption- ICPC, EFCC, the police- are well funded and independent and that no one interferes with their work. They should also be allowed to do their work without fear or favour.
Do you think that early probe of perceived treasury looters amounts to distraction of government’s focus?
Probing is a blind fold. You probe without fear or favour. If someone is guilty, then the person should get ready to be probed. On the part of laying too much emphasis on probing; in the context of Nigeria being a very corrupt country, you cannot help it. I will wish that the probe issue is not the key highlight of government. It will be good to have it go along with other things; I agree with you there. The President’s function is to deliver a comprehensive package, probing, fighting corruption; development; new energy sources, education; welfare to the poor and so on.
Though they came into power with a very lean financial base, I think if the government is looking at targeting 25million very frail and volatile Nigerians, they should have announced it. It would have helped. Part of the campaign pledges is N5,000 for the very vulnerable like those unemployed, elderly people, etc. It will be good to announce that now. When I chaired the NBA conference that the vice-president attended, he said so. He said that the government is going to be very strong on social welfare. I like this government because it agrees with my soul. Just like in the Christian world, there are different kinds of Christians. In the political world also, there are different kinds of politicians.
This government is called the left of centre. It is a social democracy government. Former president Jonathan’s government was right of centre. His, was a corporatist government. This present government is saying they will include everybody while the other former governments were saying they will only cater for only a few. The government that caters for all is likely to be popular. So, if President Buhari is able to achieve the agenda that he promised, he will be a very popular person. We are waiting to see. This is why I say it is not easy to judge him on 100 days. If he does not achieve what he promised, it will be business as usual. In Nigeria, only very few like Chief Awolowo have been able to keep to their promise.
What is your impression generally on probe of individuals?
I will be against probing individuals. I will be against the president probing anybody. That is not his function. The function of the president is to recognise that there is corruption. Next thing is appoint good people to fight this corruption. And not for the president to say ‘go after Olisa Agbakoba.’ It is for those people that have been given the job to, without reference to the president, do what they have been appointed to do, otherwise it will become selective. That was the problem with Obasanjo’s anti-corruption programme because it appeared selective, i.e it appeared as if it was being targeted at certain people.
Nobody should be targetted in the anti-corruption war. It is when you erect the net, if you are corrupt, the net will catch you, but not that you are taking the net to Olisa’s house. You erect the net for everyone and if you are not corrupt, it won’t catch you. I will personally recommend to the president not to mention anybody’s name. Buhari should set up a strong anti-corruption framework.
What do you think about the recent asset declaration of the President? Some people say it is not holistic and left many questions unanswered?
If I were in a public office I will declare my assets too. If you are not afraid, that is when you can declare your assets before you entered office and after you leave office. That is one of the strongest evidence that a man wants to be clean. Since Buhari and his Vice have done this, it will come natural for others in government to do the same. This is a good example of leading from the front.
