Abiodun Ogunleye served briefly as deputy governor of Lagos State under the Bola Tinubu administration. In this interview with Iniobong Iwok, the chieftain of the All Progressives Congress (APC) and close ally of Tinubu, assesses the state of the nation, the Buhari administration, among other issues.
Nigerians are of the view that the APC/Buhari administration has failed to fulfil its campaign promises so far. How do you react?
The damage started in 1960 when we got independence. Do you think someone can correct the problems in four years? The people who took over the country did not know what they wanted to do with Nigeria. Personally, I could not get higher education, so I left for the United Kingdom and came back in 1974. At that time Nigeria, South Korea, Thailand and Indonesia were at the same GDP; they are above us now because of leadership problem. Our leaders then, instead of bringing the country together, were preaching religious sentiments, tribal politics; things were not as bad as this but over the years, these countries have gone far beyond us.
Buhari has not failed. He came at a time the Niger Delta people were damaging the pipelines; the economy was in bad shape. You want to blame him for that? The economy was bad when he came; even if he was a magician there is no way he can change things overnight. Some people would say the youths should take over leadership. These governors facing EFCC cases, were they not young when they were in power? I was young when I came back from England, I stated working and was the head of my department; we did not ask our leaders to leave for us, we did our own. I don’t know what they are talking about; when you are 35 years old, you are at the middle age. Security, fight against corruption, and the economy have been this administration’s priority. If you take corruption, if you take the economy; when he took over the Niger-Delta started damaging pipelines, those given the contract were damaging the pipelines because they were the ones protecting it. The former president was there as the vice and later as president, what did he do with the oil money? When Buhari came, the oil price was down and with the destruction of pipelines, it was not easy; you don’t expect miracle immediately with the population that we have, the income of the government reduced drastically. Nigerians should sit down and think properly. Nigeria depends only on oil, the incomes reduced by more than 50 percent. They say he promised change, but we would make changes with money. The priority was the economy and to shore up the naira. We have changes and it was needed and that is what the government has done; the government has done enough with the resources at its disposal.
Are you saying Buhari deserves a second term?
He has performed, and we believe he can do it. I would support him. We have not talked of corruption; this is the first time that top politicians are being probed in Nigeria. For a long time you could not hold leaders accountable for their actions for embezzlement. Before we develop the country, we have to hold our leaders accountable.
How do you react to the incident in the Senate last week?
I watched the scenario. If you compare the APC in the federal, that is the federal lawmakers and what we have here in Lagos State, it is a different ball game. Here there is good working relationship between the cabinet and the lawmakers. When these people were joining the party, if we knew we would have kept them back in their party.
But they helped APC and Buhari to win the 2015 election?
Buhari had always captured the north all the time he had contested in the past. If they had not joined us, he would still have won the election. As at the time he was contesting and with the situation, we did not see anyone else. Even Nuhu Ribadu, when he left EFCC and went to the National Assembly, he said the people there were the people who had been with him in the police.
Do you think the list of alleged looters released by the Federal Government is fair enough?
I am comfortable with the list. If the opposition has objection, let them bring out the fact and publish it in the press. When the information minister was talking, he mentioned the names of the people and how much they took and he also said the cases were still in court. I spoke with someone close to the presidency and he said it was not wise to publish that earlier, and since they had been talking, we decided to do that.
But some individuals in the APC should have been in the list?
I don’t know the details about Rotimi Amaechi. Musliu Obanikoro came back to the APC and by law, you cannot stop people from joining parties; that is why we should be taking precaution. You can see that Buhari is not moving so fast because of the rivalry between the lawmakers and the executive and it is bad.
Look at what is happening in Lagos State between the governor and the lawmakers. The national budget was submitted last year and up till now nothing has been done; they are after their personal interest and saying until this person is removed as the head of this agency or board, nothing would be done. What happened shows our situation in Nigeria. When I was the chairman of AD, I said the security situation of the country could not be left in the hand of the police alone; I said there should be state police, while the federal police complement their effort. Lagos State is an example. What happened at the National Assembly is a replica of what has been happening in the country; Boko Haram just walked in and took the Chibok girls. Look at the Dapchi girls; that is the security situation of the country. Senators are now saying they should remove all the service chiefs. We need state police. Look at what is happening in the north; there is no education and that is the reason they can be easily indoctrinated and used for bombing. But this cannot happen here, because our people are educated. If they come here we would say, ‘Go and use your own children; our people here are more informed’.
But Nigerians are of the view that the president has not done enough to curtail the insecurity in the country.
If that is your interpretation, the Chibok girls were not taken during Buhari’s administration. I want to quote Wole Soyinka. When Buhari came in and was fighting corruption, he said, “Corruption would fight back”. The mature countries have told us that we should strengthen our institutions that fight corruption so that they could be independent, but what we have been doing is if you appoint someone there, you control the person. The government is working. Look, I heard this morning that Kwankwaso and Wamako are facing corruption charges.
Are they not perceived enemies of Buhari?
It is not true that it is because they are not in good terms with the president. Buhari has said he has nothing to do with their cases.
Can you say the president has done enough for the South-West and would get their votes?
The South-West would vote for Buhari if he is nominated by the party. For me, in Lagos there are certain things he has done. The road from Ikorodu to Shagamu has been awarded and they almost started, but they had little hitches, and he has handed over the federal house in Marina to Lagos State and so many other things he has done. We believe that without stamping out corruption in the country we can’t move forward. Also, power has improved. We used to operate generator in my house but it has changed. Fashola said the megawatts have increased to 7,000 now, things would improve. Rome was not built in a day.
Does it not bother the Tinubu camp that he may be used and dumped again?
Let me tell you what I know: Tinubu is our leader, he was one of the people who persuaded us to be with Buhari. We had our opinion before, especially the cancelling of the metro-line railway project when Buhari ruled as a military man; now it is economically suicidal to embark on that project. The commissioner for works then stood up and challenged Buhari when we met with him then and Buhari said that he acted on advice. That’s the problem when people take public office and use religion and tribalism to work.
I leave you to decide if Buhari has done well for us, but we have Fashola whom he has given three ministries; Fayemi, and even Abike Dabiri are there. I can’t say we have had enough, but there are other parts of the country. People have criticised him for concentrating power in the north, but he has a right to choose those who can work closely with him. The South-West has got large part of appointments but some are saying that there are still PDP people in the government. Of course, if their tenure has not expired, you can’t chase them out.
So, are you sure of Tinubu’s support for Buhari’s second term bid?
Until we sit down with Tinubu and ask him that question. For now that question does not arise. And if he takes the decision to support Buhari, we would all support him; he would speak with the leaders. Do you think Tinubu is a fool? He gave us the reasons why he did not support Jonathan; he asked him to do something for Lagos which he did not do. When he is around, the issue would be decided. Bisi Akande said that the South-West has always been in the opposition; that it was going into an alliance with the federal for the first time and that it could also pull out if the alliance was no more favourable.
And the same Akande said some months back that there was no automatic ticket for Buhari?
Yes, that is it. Tinubu has not told us the leaders of the party here that he is supporting Buhari’s second term bid, and until he says that. The president has not even been given the ticket of the party and the guidelines are not yet out. People have been coming here to say they want to contest for Assembly, etc, and I tell them to wait for the party guidelines to be out. In the past when the likes of Awolowo were in power, the party had to tell you to come out, but it is a different case now.
You mean with the renewed friendship between Tinubu and Buhari, he has not decided to support him?
There has not been any meeting where it was decided that we would support Buhari’s second term bid. Of course, Tinubu met him in London and they talked. But personally, I would support Buhari’s ambition. This is the first time we have a leader who is going after people who siphoned the wealth of the country. Kwankwaso and Wamako would face EFCC soon and these people are in APC.
What is your view about former President Olusegun Obasanjo’s ‘Third Force’?
Obasanjo has his own opinion, but I don’t agree with him. What I read is that the third force is not a political party, but if they now want to use it to contest election, they would realise that it is a different ball game. He has criticised PDP, he was also part of them; he said if the third force seeks to contest election he would quit. If he is doing that now, let him come back to active politics. If he has third force and he is going to support the SDP, it means he is not being sincere with the country; let him come back to active politics and we know he is back. People have criticised his comment. They say it is about the pot calling kettle black, he is not being taking seriously.
But other army Generals like Babangida and Danjuma have also criticised this government. Would that not affect Buhari’s chances?
If Buhari does not find it easy and he loses the election, that is the beauty of democracy, but Babangida and co are part of the problem of Nigeria. Look at how Babangida annulled Abiola’s election when it was adjudged one of the best in the history of the country. He said he would not publish his autobiography because nobody would read it; it tells so much about him. They keep criticizing. We don’t need to form another party. Go to Britain, they have Labour Party, Conservative and Liberal Party. These parties have been existing for decades and they are still strong.
What is your view about the agitations for restructuring?
This is where I disagree with the president. If we don’t restructure the country, we would not move forward. When I was the chairman of AD, I said at that time that the present structure would not take us anywhere and several years after, we are still on the same issue. So that people would not go to Abuja and because of the juice money they start to misbehave. If you are in your state you can monitor what comes. Look at the judiciary, we don’t need state high courts, it is duplication. We just need a federal court of appeal that would be there for the whole country. The Federal Government has unnecessarily too much powers and anyone who doesn’t believe in God can misuse it.
